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Hardball With Chris Matthews

News/Business. (2012) (CC)

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Wisconsin 7, Paul Ryan 7, Us 6, Florida 6, U.s. 5, Ryan 5, Mitt Romney 4, Washington 4, Cynthia 3, Romney 3, Msnbc 3, Bill Clinton 3, Connecticut 3, Tammy Baldwin 2, Tommy Thompson 2, Jack Kennedy 2, Obama 2, Minnesota 2, Iowa 2, Missouri 2,
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  MSNBC    Hardball With Chris Matthews    News/Business.  (2012)  (CC)  

    September 27, 2012
    2:00 - 3:00am EDT  

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>> so he's really going to show w sn october th? >> i can't wait for october 19th's show. patrick murphy gets tonight's last word. thanks for joining us. > kiwaetlay wrence. gevg, cis matthews in washington. leading off tonight, i want you to watch and listen to the next few minutes here. it may be the most important thing you see and hear in this entire campaign. it's a sharp taste of what's being used to defeat president obama. newt gingrich. what if obama is so outsidour reioaty ou understand kenyon anti-colonial behavior can you begin to piece
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together his aions. and -- >> i would like to have him show his birth certificate, because if he can't, then he has pulled e of the great conin the a- ory of politics. >> i wish this president would love how to be an american. >> and -- >> no one's ever asked to see my birth certificate. >> and this tweet, obama sympathizes with attackers in t. and then last night -- >> he's not a real president. >> tonight on "hardball" we show you the true ugly campaign being run against the president. even in the face of this ugly attack, there are two big new poll numbersunning in his direion. t'ece bagh scoa according to a "new york times"/cbs/quinnipiac poll, obama leads romney by ten points. down in florida, the president's lead in the poll is nine, 53-44.
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enupigd now, even s to be in the face of this coordinated attack from the right. with me now are mother jones bureau chief and msnbc political contributor david corn and cynthia tucker. i want to talk about theood news for the obama team right now. cynthia, why do you think -- take a minute here -- despite this ugly campaign i've just pointed out in its pattern, its thread, what they are doing to try to delegitime this president, why is he doing well in the toughest states? >> we've talked about what campaign has done wrong. we haven't spent as much time talking about the things obama has done right. obama has done a lot of things for e thing, he's just a stronger candidate. he relates to people better. he's more approachable. his favorability rates are
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higher, while romney has high unfavorability ratings. but obama actually has a set of principles he believesn. so, he has a message that he carries out on the campaign trail over and over again. mitt romney doesn't appear to have anything he believes in so he has spent a lot of the ama kes rlves atopping. -- >> undstand you -- >> -- that are doing well for him. >> i believe you understand they made a smart, strategic move to go after the 1% and go after fairness and the whole populous campaign that was pushed and denied and questioned by all the establishment. obama push a without ng, iats campaign's about. >> absolutely. you know, there were democratic big wigs saying, don't attack bain. bill clinton had something, you know, not enthusiastic to say about it.
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t a --t in romney on the bain message. he knows what he believes. he wouldn't be thrown off course by a little bit of bickering from the peanut gallery. and those ads work. so did the autilout, paul in io. that's an early move obama made that republicans criticized, mitt romney was against it. but it is making a huge difference in ohio's comeback. let me gea ae stl brinid w inon pt poll has president obama out front in ohio and florida. inside the numbers we see how the president has hit home with ohio voters on understanding economic problems people are having right now. ama beats romney by 31 on connecting on their problems. 51 points in florida -- actuly, . on handling taxes, president obama beats romney by a wide margin, 17 points in ohio. in florida it's closer, leads by one.
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in handling medica, obama beats romney by 1 in ohio, 15 in florida. what i understand, looking at the differential, orida has a lot retired pple, ou very sensitive. in a sense, ohio has people who can't afford to get down to florida in the wintertime. their social security, medicare, and maybe if they're lucky, some pension and savings. you know, we've talked about this for mons now. afth10ct oba sat down and thought about what his message is, his vision is, his strategy going into 20 1237 that's what i wrote about in howdown" and he's stuck to passn, because he believes in it. there's a real distinction between him and republicans when it comes to all those issues you just talked about, but these are value-driven differences. t just poly differences. you wanto do this with the deci wanto dohat. 'se re it dos ec iave a different set of values than republicans.
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>> what are those values? spell them out. >> using government as a communal progressive force to protect the safety net and to come together and invest in innovation, education, infrastructure. we're in it together. versus the ryan budget, which blan ninee, which says we're on it alone, get rid of government and give you a voucher, find medicare on your own. here comes romney and he sort of fits the mold. he's a 1 percenter. he shows no empathy, even before the 47%. tusinom market guy. beginning, as cynthia noted, as a value. he's out there making money. i'm thinking of wider ames and goals. >> a new bloomberg goal that has present obama leading mitt romney by six points nationally. for one big reason, half of the polls say they have an unfavorable view of mitt romney. bloomberg reports, this is a september high for a presidential challenger in the last three decades.
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bloombg quotes a 40-year-old lfcr libertarian on virginia, why she's going to vote for obama. now, this isn't cheerleading for obama by any means but explains romney's problem. if i have to choose between the two, i prefer barack obama over mitt. i think mitt romney is so out of touch. it mostly a protest against him d reblican blen it's not that i think obama has done such a great job. here's an independent speaking. romney's high unfavorable numbers can be linked to awkward and cringe-inducing moments in debates and on the campaign trail. let's listen to some. >> rk, i'll te youha 10 b? $10,000 bet? >> i'm not in the betting business. >> we could raise taxes on people. that's not -- >> corporation! >> corporation! >> corporations are people, my friend. ♪ o beautiful for scious skies for amber ves gra ♪ ♪ for purple mountains majesty
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♪ above the fruited plain >> wl, i don't know why he got into the fruited plainhere, but de. prm ot so much his singing voice, which is not worse or better than my own, i must say, but he does say things like instinctively when you let romney be romney, bet you 10,000 bucks, quick, put it on the table, i've got it in my wallet. this thing about corporations being people. nothe ornse le corporations are bottom line institutions. >> he's a very rich guy who just doesn't relate to the struggles of ordinary people. and because he has had this problem for months now, has shupthllha what made this 47% remark so absolutely devastating for him. itlayed into the larger narrative that mitt romn is some rich guy, who's very
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condesceing about people, who arnot in his fortunate circumstances. you know, there's so much things wrong with the 47% remark, it's hard to cover them all. but one of them is, here's a g who's talking about people who don't pay anything in taxes and he refuses to disclose very much about his own taxes. we still don't know what romney was paying in 2005, 2006, how many tax shelters he has. these are not things the average american relates to. and theyon't believe that he has a plan for helping them. >> they released a new -- i want you to respond to this ad because this is the kind of ad you run when you're losing. at least losing an argument. eyeathd, his. romney people today. it appears to be an effort to contain the damage done by what you just said, cynthia, 47%
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disclosure they didn't want to disclose. let's listen. >> president obama and i both care about poor d middle class famili. diens,poes will make things better for them. we shouldn't measure compassion by how many people are on welfare. we should measure compassion by how many people are able to get off welfare and get a good paying job. w pe onfas assi by who is the story man they're trying to argue with? >> they are trying to make a caricature out of president obama calling him the food stamp president. this reminds me of the story where the woman comes home, finds her husbanin bed with s best friend and heays, ok ino bs you have the 47 -- >> is that a joke or true life story? >> i'm sure it's happened once or twice. you have the 47% remark with romney speaking and other people have said it, not just me, with complete conviction and passion, teing opha reay
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ks thou have this guy sitting in front of a camera, reading a script. you have to ask, okay, do they expect people to buy this now? this is -- >> politically, i ha an rtel nit'sadmyfor pocs career. in 1960 this is exactly what richard nixon said in his debate with jack kennedy. i share jack kennedy's mission. i share his concerns. have the same goals. people at home are cringing, why am i giving him ney, why am i voting for a guy who has the same goals as another guy. cya, wprly remember the nixon/kennedy debates, but you don't say the other guy is a good, compassionate guy and he cares about people. i do, too! that's what he's saying. i'm just like him. if you belve hs asat ao! sngma. >> you say that if you don't have anything else to say, chris. another thing the bloomberg poll
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shows is that voters -- more s a ncre plafor lpt barack obama the middle class than believe that mitt romney has such a plan. that's another problem mitt romney has. he hadxpected th theno would win the election for him. all he would have too is go to people and say, i'm not barack obama. i can do a better job. in fact, he needed to do a lot more. obama has laid out specific proposals. he's had a job for mths now, but mitt romney has been very vague about his proposals for heine lelass. >> you know what, this strikes me, just thinking now, listening to cynthia, he seems to are been running this campaign for the last six months as someone who expected the voters would want him. not that hwould have to sell himsf, p hisdeas that the voters uld want him as a white knight, coming in and
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rescuing the company, that is, the u.s. economy. and he didn't have to do much beyond that. as he's finding out, that's not the way the game plays if you want to be leader of the united stes. >> there arehiin his didt cot hegh from arkansas showing up either, bill clinton. >> sir lancelot. >> sir lancelot showed up in the fields and he's not the guy to go jousting with. thank you, to complete the last ference to that metaphor. tr> coming up, morrit wi newt gingrich said president obama isn't a real president, he said that last night, he says he's a false president. when will this right wing effort stop to stop the legitimacy of this president? we'll talk about the relentless campaign. also, the lead president obama enjoys in the polls may be helping democrats on other job races like senate. tonight we'll talk to one senate
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candidate whose fortunes are on the rise, wisconsin's tammy baldwin. mitt romney isn't succeeding as a solo act so the romney campaign is putting mitt romney and paul ryan on the campaign trail together, sort of a karaoke duet, i guess. what does it tell you the big draw on the republican ticket is the number two guy? let me finish toght with how the moic pty a he rty to grow after this election. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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now that there's no chance of a republican replacing todd akin in the missouri senate race, claire mccaskill is hitting akin hard for his we'll be right back. > e' apt oth
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right wing to delegitimatize president obama, an attempt to declare our president not really an american. >> i would like to have him show his birth certificat >> i wish this president would learn how to how to be an american. >> no one's asked for my birth certificate. >> this talk and false welfare
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ads is what president obama faces in the next 41ays. alex wagner host of "now" on msnbc and eugene robinson is a pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post." thanks for joining us tonight. you know, i just wder, why is there so little note of what's rlpan hi cagn? on one side this constant reaching the president is not an american. never stops. birtherism, and on the other side, thisttempt to suppress the minority vote. 's clearlyn atmpt win anctinugs possible way and no one seems to talk about it. >> well, it's shameful. i think that there -- to some degree there has been a fairly robu discussion about the voter fraud stuff. the democrats and, you know, progressives have managed to at bk republican efforts disenfranchise thousands if not
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millions of voters. but the president is not american, under the spell of muslim, and the fifth highest documentary of all time which purports the president to be anti-amerin, kenyan revolutionary in the vein of his father, barack obama sr. this is something the republican party has been furthering since barack obama was a candidate with the jeriah wright stuff. it'soublg do ocrly divisive racialized brand of politics that doesn't serve the republicans well this election cycle but really does not serve th well in the long term. this party, i don't see what the future of the republican party is if these are the spokes lee giche donald trumps of the world. >> you know, gene, it didn't start here, of course. there was an attempt, nixon what he would say about adlai stevenson in the '50s, the red
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scare was used obviously. they weren't one of us. bill clinton was accused of kingff to ruia, rember that, back when he ran. he was some sort of red. mike dukakis was a guy that wouldn't pledge allegiance to the united states, somehow a card-carrying member of the aclu. all this dark, kind of referencing. they're not really one of us. but then with e et facr, becae heas aane and he's black, the doubling down on this, well, he's not one of us. >> right. race adds to this, to the armament they're using he. it's a huge factor in this. but what i think is interesting is that this seems to renate theate ama crowd t doesn't seem to be resonating a lot with other folks. and -- >> it already has. but why are -- you cover politics. why do they keep puttingut this stuff? night, he's the craziest -- not the craziest, the meanest. to use a kid's words, but he is,
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saying he's not american. sununu who looks like their watch dog, attacdog saying, can't he learn how to be an american? they don't say thaout walter moe,n'y a o. they said that about bob dole. >> they don't say it in this way. they're throwing this against the wall and hoping it will stick. again, it seems to crge the people who have already made up their minds, made up their minds years ago. >> here are the smart guys in -- i guess, boston. mitt romney has been running red meat ads on medicare. this is false adds. this is when he sa it' feg baob inanbipartisan congress helped end welfare as we know it, by requiring work for welfare. on july 12th president obama quietly announced a plan to gut welfare reform by dropping work requirements.
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der obama'plan you wouldt are to work or train for a j they just send you your welfare check. and welfare to work goes back to being plain old welfare. mitt romney will restore the work requirement because it works. >> so all white people. it's fine. that normally wouldn't be the worst thg in the wld, but when that ad actuallraand hit the r was ey defended it to "usa today's" susan page and in the interview romney said, quote, romney defends the welfare ads as accurate, accusing obama of offering state waivers as a political calculation designed to, quote, shore up his base ich is code for afn-icemts so, there you have an ad with all whites in it. romney comes out himself and says, this is so he can feed his base by saying, we'll get rid of those work requirents for people on welfare. can you obama giving a big speech to the guys in the inner city, guess wh, ladies and ntlen, i gng o the work requirement. yea! it's a totally ridiculous,
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demeaning ideademeaning to both recipients of welfare who have to take it and a president accused of using it to shield antryi tt s i it's so demeaning. >> it's an update of the ronald reagan welfare mean, same racialized politics mitt romney has been playing for the last eight, ten months. quent, the idea the elfare president is abolishing it, he is taking a gop prescription for reforming welfare and putting it in place, which is giving more power to the states. you know, the details of that, the fact that tons of things the president has embraced are actually rooted in conservative ideology has been a mpletely lost or disavowed by the bl p. i mean, they -- mitt romney has to win 60% of white voters and will stop at nothing to shore up every white vote he can. and that includes playing to the lowest carin the deck, which is incredibly racially charged, stoke hatred and fulmen, i
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guess, enthusiasm to get folks out to the polls. >> gene, look at this. every time i see this, i see it infrequently, i cry. i've been accused of being too emotional about politics. four years ago, john mccain stood up to a suppteo caed then-senator ama ar. here's his instantaneous, instinctive reaction. take a look. >> i have read about him and he's not -- he's a -- he's an arab. he's not -- o,a'am. >> no? >> no, ma'am, no, ma'am. he's a decent, family man, citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. that's what this campaign is all about. >> yeah, that's called hon. 's cled nor. 're t ngotth we're not seeing any of that. >> i haven't seen that on either side in this campaign. >> john mccain is a genuine guy.
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disagree with him, agree with him, whatever, it's called honor. the publican party used to believe in that. mep n't. cruly, ere' i'm not going to go along with what i see as is an ethnic campaign, that shouldn't be part of this campaign. i'm not going to go along with what you said. that instincti no, no, is the greatest american spirit. i'm not ing to do that. >> imagine mitt roeyng that. lianthncin their life. thank you for coming on, alex wagner. you were great. thank you, gene. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] it seems like every company
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d get outstanding deals with the travelocity fall hot sale. you n save up to 40% on select hotels. oourel n anveto. hurry, offer ends soon. book now at travelocity. on saturday mitt romney had to present a bold idea. >> when you have a fire in an aircraft, there's no place to go
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exactly. there's no place -- you can't find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft because the windows don't open. i don't know why they dot do that. >> just as kennedy challenged a man to go to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it iimpoib >> back to "hardball." once again, mitt romney, if you heard them there, proves to be one of the only people on earth, earthlings, who says aircraft when he's talking about a plane he's been on. with today's republican candidate in mind let's bounce back to the 19 sci-fi "the day ieucs down on earth. here's a refresher.
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>> i came he to give you these facts, but if you threaten to extend your violence, this earth rnutder. will beeduced to a >> i don't know about you, but i can't help but see mitt romney there. let's take a look at a snapshot from that movie. there's klaatu played by michael rennie and he looks like a candidate with a 1950's sci-fi dobble-gair. back to earth. francois hollande weighed in on the u.s.residential race yesterday and almost chooses a candidate to endorse. here's what he said to reporters at the.n. yesterday when asked taonia.n aboitt mney quote, yes, that's why i'll be careful not to say anything at all this subject because as you'd imagine if a socialist supported one of these two candidates, that would cost him dear. so i suppose i should endorse mitt romney but i won't.
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finally talking to extremes, how did minnesota's lieutenant governor solon ramp up extra publicity for an event to help support military families? rivaa hi-prole let's take a look. that's not on my bucket list. iv lieutenant governor teamed up with a u.s. army parachute team to skydive at 120 miles per hour. anyway, from an altitude of about 13,000 ft, right onto the minnesota state capital grounds. she followed the dive with a speech, encouraging people to suppt mitaryams ss thun good for her. up next, president obama's uptick in the polls is helping democrats run for office across the country.
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welcome back to "hardball." the battle for united states senate comes down to a handful of races across the country as republicans need to net just four seats to takeontrol. one of those races is in wisconsin, if they win the present seat but momentum has shifted in recent weeks to democraticandite, cossn y win leading her republican challenger, tommy thompson, by four points in the latest ppp poll. congresswoman bawin joins us right now. you seem to be doing pretty good much noise in the st cple g so s us pc employees. how does that affect your race, scott walker, unions on one side, public employee/unions, how does that affect the interest voters are having in th yeas ti ten wisconsin engage more than ever before. we've, as you said, had a lot going on in our state.
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a lot on the ballot. people are organized, people are thinking hard about the future anjobs and the economy. into actually increase voterg, turnout and participation. we're always a high participation state, but i think we're going to see it grow. >> you know, i was at the democratic convention down in arlotte covering for the network, and i was taken by -- sure, there were a lot ogood mpe, di't he an one thaseem rhetoric, it was common sense, it was bill clinton. what effect do you think bill clinton had on talking about people's challenges and what the presidt's faced in offe? >> he gave an amazing speech. and what was really important about it ijust matter of factlllkthroh th allegations that have been raised, coming back with responses. i mean, there's been so much misleading information, especially from the right wing super pacs and special interests. he just methodically went through it all. i have to say my favoritli
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om h speh waabou balancing budgets. it's based on arithmetic. you may not know this, chris, but i was a math major, a double major in math and government. i get it. we have to make things add up if we're going to get our economy back on track, start creating jobs and attack our deficit. >>'se okth in the midst of mitt romney's 47% fallout, what people found out what he really thought in a room that cost 50,000 bucks to get in the door, tommy thompson tossed blame on romney for his own sliding poll numbers. the guy runninagainst you is amthy ing ains obama. let's watch him in action. >> the presidential thing is bound to have an impact on every election. you know, whether you're a democrat or republican. if you'rstand bearer for the president is not doing well it's going to reflect on the wn boll ballot. >> right now, obama leads romney by seven points in wisconsin. what effect do you think -- when you're traveling every day, working 24 hours a day practically campaigning, your
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head is around meeting people, remembering names, being nice to peop, and trying to think. the other thing going on the ole me, ey'rtr t thtoe r id how does that get into people's minds, do you think, when they're talking to you? >> yeah, i have to tell you that when people are focusing othe u.s. senate race they're asking themselves a couple basic questions, whose side are you on? who's fighting for the hard working middle class families of wisconsin? they know i'm on their side and that's what i've done. they're also learning a lot about what tommy tmpson has been doing for the last decade of his life. he left wisconsin and joined the bush administration. in h serce tre, gav the drug companies a sweetheart deal with the medicare part "d" program. he made it illegal for medicare to bargain with the drug companies in order to get better prices for seniors. and then he did the revoing door. he been rkat aig longm,inll
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of dollars representing those powerful interests that already have too much say in washington. so wisconsin people are saying, whose side are you on? they are figuring out i'm squarely on their side. that's the fight i've always taken. u'oierllluckut there. you're moving up in the polls, making it happen. tammy baldwin, running for senator in wisconsin. polls are moving. thanks for coming on "hardball." with me w is a man w's very nonpartisan, trying to figure this out, msnbc political analyst and politics editor chris cirilli. like you, i watch these races all the time and i'm con founded by, to me, so many races like massachusetts, connecticut, vada, certnly montana, north dakota, missouri, are all to me within the margin of error. they all looclose. teing, chris, because i think congresswoman baldwin has benefitted from this. as you've seen over the last 2 1/2, 3 weeks, move nationally at the presidential level and in
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swing states to president obama, yoveeen do ballot, tim kainin vnia,amaldw in wisconsin move as well. what's interesting, as you mentioned, connecticut, to be honest, i did not think -- i'm from connecticut. linda mcmahon is republican nominee, she ran in 2010 and lost in a very good republican year. she's remarkably close at the moment to the congressman chris murphy, which you wouldn't think, given the last couple of weeks. i mean, broadly senate candidates have benefitted but there are exception. >> is that women saying it's about time we have a woman in senate from coect? i k can. i want to remind people as i did to some of our producers today, even in years where one party wins the presidency, there are people that come out of nowhere and wiin the other direction. joe biden won that senate seat at the age o29 and hasn't lost since in t govnor ye so there will be people that go the
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other way. >> i would say honestly, chris, and i hate to be so bottom line about this, but i think the best thing linda mcmahon has going for her is she can continue to write as many chks she likes. she's very, very wealthy. she spent $50 million in the 2010 campaign and she's running against a guy that's not well known. >> she's bigger. >> yeah, she's a big figure and, look, she's spending tens of millns of dollars on tv. it a fcingli you think everything shifted towards democrats and i would say broadly -- >> is she pro-choice or pro-life, where is she on the abortion rights? >> did not talk about it, i believe -- >> wow. she focuses esively as a businesswoman. she shouldn't talk about it in connecticut because she won't win on that issue. >> by the way, massachusetts is looking murky as ever with scott brown.
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same as -- totally murky. thank you very much, the pro around here. up next, paul ryan revs up republicans. mitt romney, not so much. what's going on between these two? is this marriageorking? they were dating all right but i'm not sure this thinis working. we'll be back to figure out if ryan is on top or romney in this fight.
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♪ this song "moon river" by harry mancini was the upspirit, dreamy melody said something about the boanit better than andy e and williams, who died yesterday in branson, missouri. we will miss him much as we miss and thirst for which he sang.
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we're back. conservatives were thrilled when mitt romney took their advice and picked u.s. congressman paul ryan as his nning mate. which the campaign came under critism,hey ed h t unleash the young conservative star, ryan. today comes news of romney/ryan infusion. the two will be spending more time together on the trail in the coming weeks. will this double act, duo, engizehe cpaig mil rer writes for "time" magazine. michael, you first. i was impressed when he picked a guy that showed guts, picked a conservative with a real agenda, a real word on the budt, tricky stuff like medicare chges and then he had his good speech. they both had good speeches
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together. and then he seemed to have a one-might stand with the guy and split. now he's back saying we're dang again, we're going to show up together. what's that about? >> remember that week when they rst came together, the word from the campaign, the press was bold >>was ld. >>waboick. the idea was, you bring ryan in and he -- you make mitt romney, who's never been conservative, golden boy into a movement leader, an ideological leader. >> but they didn't really dig in. >> they thought they had donit and they could back away from it. inat > we' bk. >> well, john nichols, if you go back into ryan territory now, you do risk what's there, waiting for you. a friend of mine or a family member who's a doctor told me, this is real problem, medicare, messing around with
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people's insurance, which for mo people is medicare, i nde prenrritory for an >> i think it is incredibly dangerous, and i would remind folks that paul ryan was given a task over these last few weeks, and that was to secure the state of iowa. he went to iowa repeatedly, mpgnedhere lotth ate fair and events around, and even in smaller cities. and at the end of the process, we get pollinghat shows romney/ryan to be down eight, nine points in iowa. so the notion that paul ryan brings aagic to this ticket, i think is beginning tfade. >> i don't think he believes he's magic, because he's running for re-election in the united states congress, even though he's running for vice president. he's already got his plan "b" in effect. anyway, if you've heard ryan, the ad he had running, you would think it was the romney campaign. thagn. hee p rug wionsin for his own congressional campaign in case he doesn't make it to pennsylvania avenue or to the vice president's house.
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let's take a look. >> can america afford the path we're on >> our country has a critical decision to make. will we leave something bett or worse for o children? politicians from both partie mempresch will soon become broken promises if we fail to act now. we must take action to prevent the most predictable economic crisis in our country's history. washington promotes a culture of dependency. we need a culture of accountability and personal responsibility >> so, if governor romney gives a concession speech, which is always the best part of election night coverage, i hope we get to cover them all, because it's true when this happens, somebody lost, somebody won, he will now say, sorry, governor, i've got to go over to my victory speech, mcongressional campaign adte it's going to be so weird. >> i think to be fair, i think joe biden ran ads in delaware in 2008. >> did he? >> i think he did. so you can do this. but you're absolutely right, and -- >> let me do the math on that. 72. go ahead. >> rn is sitting --
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>> no -- >> -- to -- >> he was up, mike? >> i think he was. >> and ryan is setting himself up here to be what he always wanted to be, win or lose. so the election doesn't determine ryan's fate. if romney loses, there's going to be a huge chorus of the republic par sing, it was juhay'ul >> whose fault? >> mitt romney's fault. >> that's what i think. john, you write for "the nation," you're not a right-winger, but don't you have a sense they'll say, that's the y thpendum goes. thl hdnave enough ideological weight to win. >> i think you're right about that, but i also think that paul ryan is worried about that issue. and, you know, paul ryan is a very ambitious political player. he's a nice guy. ha worker, very diiplined. i think much more disciplined th mitt romney. >> he's upt 4:00 in mog douss. ow'sttamazg. >> and hundreds of them, man, while listening to "rage against the machine." but he is a disciplined player
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with a political career track. i think he is rried about being on the bottom of a badly losing ticke yoow dt ly that well for sergeant shriver after running with mcgovern in '72. so i do think that ryan thinks about it. my sense is that he nts to get out there and be more in front on this ticket. whether that creates tensioni dot know. thers no question th at one t,t ey pry really liked one another, and really thought they were going to gel. we have not seen that yet. and frankly, they need to do that in october if they're going to beg to turn this campaign around. >> is this important to yo do you see they have to look likehey like each other? look like a duet. >>nd iav sn anhing that shows that they don't personally like each other. they seem to be getting together fine on the bus. >> i think they're two different people. there's one person, we all know the terms, conviction politician. that's ryan. nobody would ever ll mitt mney conviion politician, ev
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they're not to be confused. anyway, thank you john nichols, and thank you, michael shere. when we return or when i return, let me finish with the democratic party's big opportunity to bece a huge political party after that election, after this election. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
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let me finistonit wi has opptuni to after this election. i know that most of the focus is the change that's been made in the republican party, how it's
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moving inexorably from a center right to a far right party. how the mainliners are dying off and the tea partyers are becoming the mainstrea all that's happening, there's no d bse rlican party is morphg into a right-wing party, that i see an opportunity for the democrats, should they choose to embrace it. there are a lot of people out there, i grew up with em, who would not call themselves liberal, but who are pragmatic foa lot of things that liberals are for. theye anrelyn al rionic aor purposes of long-term care, medicaid. they care about good public schools, and they want the government to do a good job protecting the health of the air they breathe and what they eat. these people believe in the science they studied in school. people in this country. they don't want a big churchy government telling them how to live. so if the democrats are smart, even reasonable, they will make e biggest grab in history for the people that the new right-wing party is leaving behindas it shifts further and further, leaving a leg